Discussion:
[Avodah] Shofar on Yom Kippur - Muktzah?
Moshe Yehuda Gluck via Avodah
2014-10-05 01:28:03 UTC
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Rabbosai, is the shofar on Yom Kippur muktzah (as a kli she'melachto
l'issur) and we use it after Ne'ilah l'tzorech gufo so it's mutar in tiltul
then? Or, is it not muktzah the entire Yom Kippur because it's muttar to use
after Ne'ilah, so it's muchan for the entire day?



KT,
MYG

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Kenneth Miller via Avodah
2014-10-05 13:36:24 UTC
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is the shofar on Yom Kippur muktzah (as a kli she?melachto
l?issur) and we use it after Ne?ilah l?tzorech gufo so it?s
mutar in tiltul then?
I have always presumed that by the time Neilah is over, it is late enough that we don't need to worry about Hilchos Muktzeh. Are you making a distinction between the time that the shofar is blown, vs. a few seconds earlier when it is picked up?

I'd also focus on your words, "we use it after Ne?ilah l?tzorech gufo". I will concede that it is mutar to handle a kli shemelachto l'issur for a purpose which is l'tzorech gufo. However, that presumes that you will be using this object (which is *normally* used in a manner which is a melacha) in a manner which is NOT a melacha. For example, one may pick up a hammer in order to crack a nut, but one may NOT pick up a hammer in order to hammer a nail. So too, the heter of "l'tzorech gufo" cannot be used to allow the actual *blowing* of the shofar.

Akiva Miller
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Zev Sero via Avodah
2014-10-06 01:09:30 UTC
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Post by Kenneth Miller via Avodah
I have always presumed that by the time Neilah is over, it is late
enough that we don't need to worry about Hilchos Muktzeh. Are you
making a distinction between the time that the shofar is blown, vs. a
few seconds earlier when it is picked up?
Shabbos/Yomtov continues in full force until one says "baruch hamavdil"
or "ata chonantanu".
Post by Kenneth Miller via Avodah
I'd also focus on your words, "we use it after Ne?ilah l?tzorech
gufo". I will concede that it is mutar to handle a kli shemelachto
l'issur for a purpose which is l'tzorech gufo. However, that presumes
that you will be using this object (which is *normally* used in a
manner which is a melacha) in a manner which is NOT a melacha.
The tekiah after Neilah is permitted, so in this case "letzorech gufo"
means its normal use. Similarly if there were a case when hammering a
nail was permitted on Shabbos, one would be allowed to carry a hammer
letzorech gufo to do this permitted hammering.
Post by Kenneth Miller via Avodah
So too, the heter of "l'tzorech gufo" cannot be used to allow the
actual *blowing* of the shofar.
Of course not. That would be putting the cart before the horse.
First one must have a heter to blow, then one may handle the shofar
in order to do so. The heter is that it's a minhag to blow. Blowing
shofar on Shabbos is only forbidden in the first place because of uvdin
dechol, so it doesn't take much to permit it.
--
Zev Sero Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable
zev at sero.name from malice.
- Eric Raymond
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